Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Thinset is going to create a solid surface under tile and prevent flexing that could lead to cracking. All rights reserved. Towel Bar in SpotShield Brushed Nickel, Acoustic Armstrong CEILINGS Drop Ceiling Tiles, Woodgrain Millwork WG 1866 0.591 in. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Do the Huichol of Mexico tie rope around the father's testicles during birth? Feather the edges of the mortar across each board so the surface is as smooth as possible. Then spread thinset mortar with the flat side of a 1/4-in. No studs for glass shower door - Can I hollow wall anchor? Stagger the board placements a bit like bricks. Plus you don't have to introduce any water. trowel with the 1/4 trowel and slap then down. Cement board can also be used on countertops when laying tile. Whats a Bladeless Ceiling Fan and Does It Really Work? If you google hardibacker pdf you will get the link to down load pdf. is the French certificate of renewal of CNI enough to prove my identity in Switzerland. Leave a 1/8-inch gap between each backer board sheet. Without it, there will be areas where the backer board does not quite rest firmly on the substrate below. Do a dry run and lay the backer board down to fully cover the area you plan to tile. Ceramic tile laid over cement board is one of the most durable floor or wall surfaces you can install. Please call us at: 1-800-HOME-DEPOT (1-800-466-3337), Please enter in your email address in the following format: you@domain.com. Have them re-do it regardless. Bill. Drive the screws in so that the heads are slightly below the surface of the backer board sheet. The Following User Says Thank You to Snobnd For This Useful Post: Leo, Contractor Talk - Professional Construction and Remodeling Forum. Floors: Installation instructions for cement board on floors typically include applying cement-based thin-set between the exterior-grade plywood and cement board. Thats the main reason theyre a go-to choice for permanent installations like this. Products shown as available are normally stocked but inventory levels cannot be guaranteed, For screen reader problems with this website, please call 1-800-430-3376 or text 38698 (standard carrier rates apply to texts), #6 x 1-1/4 in. In the end, the decision comes down to your willingness to settle for 95% quality or to deal with the dispute between yourself and your contractor. Mapei sells the latex modifier, as well as a lot of good mortars. Make a rough plan for the cement board sheet layout, based on the area to be covered and the size of the cement board sheets. You can use regular thinset with a separate latex additive, or a polymer-modified thinset (just add water). Cut the fiberglass mesh along the backside of the board, as applicable, to complete the cut. You can cut the cement board with a utility knife and a T-square. It only takes a minute to sign up. If thats the case, unfortunately, theres no quick fix for this problem other than removing the tile and cement backer board and starting over. the directions are talking about tile directly to plywood. So I can't verify this claim. Cement board is used for most floor tile and has all but replaced plywood and drywall backer materials for wall-tile applications in wet areas like showers and tub surrounds. In my opinion, you'll probably be satisfied with the results if only screws are used. Doing this will require that you remove the existing surface material before installing backer board over the studs. drywall screws spaced every 6 in. Backer board prevents leaks and water damage that could harm your flooring and the structure of your home. Repeat this process, spreading mortar and laying the backer board one sheet at a time. National Gypsum said the same thing as CarpenterRN. 1. Using thinset between the backerboard and subfloor will create additional strength, fill in any potential gaps that exist and lessen the possibility of movement. While I doubt adhesive or mastic would deteriorate the backerboard, if you are going to go to all the trouble of troweling it on, it's just as easy to use thinset. Cement board, commonly sold under trade names such as Durock, Hardiebacker, and WonderBoard, is now the standard underlayment used for ceramic, porcelain, or stone tile laid with thinset mortar adhesive. cement boards that some in sheets. We recommend our users to update the browser. Always use cement board screws. I thought it was a Star Wars spin-off at first. Thanks gents! Wait 24 to 48 hours before tiling. You have to remove the OSB and put down high-rigidity plywood, then a membrane then a cement backer board OR use a wood subfloor with a full mortar bed. Vinyl flooring glued over 1/4-in. Sci-fi story about a reincarnating evil spirit that possesses someone from time to time, leading them to commit evil actions. The adhesive , in its plasticene state, would have to be rigid and hard enough to withstand the force of the screw, an inclined plane, most likely propelled by an impact driver. Precut and fit all the cement board and then lift all of the cement boards out. Leave a 1/4-inch gap between the backer board and the wall. x 500 ft. Self-Adhesive Mesh Drywall Joint Tape, How to Prepare a Subfloor for Tile Installation, Delta Greenwich 18 in. Continue installing sheets to cover the entire area. As long as the subfloor is 3/4-in. It's not so much a matter as what's required as it's about what makes a good finished job. I envision the bead of adhesive compressing and the sub-floor and backer-board joining as one. Screwing the plywood down to the floor joists should take care of most squeaks. the TSet under the concrete boards is to simply provide support not adhesion. To determine your subfloor construction, pull off a heating grate and look at the exposed subfloor edges. underlayment. We liked this installation video and thought it would be helpful, Bostik Caulks, Sealants & Specialty Products, Schluter Waterproof Substrates & Building Panels, Schluter Waterproofing & Uncoupling Membranes, Bostik Pure Silicone Sealant Portabella H184. Your contract apparently doesn't stipulate mortar in this case. Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features. Score the board with a, With the smooth side of a 1/4-inch notched. @isherwood I agree but the only argument I have for them doing more work is the requirements specified by the manufacturer. I started a show a few months ago on a streaming app and I can't remember the name of it. How to prove that both people know the same dictionary word? I do very little tile work but occasionally I get a request for it.FYI. Thatll keep the floor thickness to a minimum. what you have will work for both the hardie and tile. maybe this is stupid, but couldn't you just use construction adhesive and screws?The adhesive will allow for minimal flex and is weather proof.Not being a tile guy, I don't know if that's too cheap and easy? These are stickier and a little more flexible than regular thinset with water. 1/2-in. Ethical implications of using scraped e-mail addresses for survey. It's not really there to stick it down, although it doesn't hurt. I'll add that to the post. The corners and edges of the sheets should not touch one another. Unlike wood or drywall sub-surfaces, cement backer board will not rot, warp or grow mold and mildew when exposed to water. Nothing better than glue AND screw. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company. -ME. What kind of sub-contractor do I use for cutting out a window in a wall that the kitchen and living room share? Position the screws at least 1/2-inch, but no more than 2 inches, from the edge of the sheet. Space the screws 8 inches apart across the entire sheet. I've agreed to go with just the screws, which is a step up from the roofing nails. As long as they will stand behind their work and have been in business more than a few years, you should have some peace of mind in assuming they do not want to come back and fix it for free and completed the job in such a way to avoid just that. say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." Leave a 1/4 gap between the backer board and walls and 1/16 gap between the sheets of backer board. You know it's best to ask for advice before you start, not after you finish. Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Do I need to rip out and redo (uggh). This looked like a pretty helpful group with some knowledgeable guys. I always thought mortar barely held to plywood of any kind so this kinda confuses me. In an attempt to break the bond, the failure was in the plywood not the adhesive. If you do not like something or have concerns, you definitely were right in piping up and saying something to them. You can use it both for the board and the tile. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! You'll also learn how to use thin-set mortar to secure and level your subfloor before installing tile. Heres how to prepare the most common subfloor types: 2. You also cant safely install tile flooring over plywood subfloor or onto an unprotected wood floor. Announcing the Stacks Editor Beta release! Ponyti,Dampening the ply before you apply the thinset is just fine. 2022 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. Use 1/4-in. Layout the cement backer board at right angles to the plywood subfloor so the joints in the backer board are staggered and dont fall on joints in the plywood. Lay the sheets so the joints in the backer board dont line up with the joints in the subfloor. Allow a 1/4-inch gap between the edges of the sheets and all surrounding walls. thick cement board instead of the usual 1/2-in. Apply a mound of mortar to the subfloor, then spread it out in an even layer, using a 1/4-inchnotched trowel. Get an overview of the process of creating a traditional-style fireplace that burns well and meets current building codes from experienced mason Mike Mehaffey. By the DIY experts of The Family Handyman Magazine. Andcan I use this same modified latex thinset for setting the tiles as well?If at first you don't succeed, try usinga hammer next timeeverything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. 4: The Drywall Guru Offers Expert Advice, Under-Cabinet Lighting Made Easy with EcoSmart Tape Lighting, Ask Danny | Ep. Emil, if your floor is flat and your tiles are flat you should be able to set the tiles with your 1/4x1/4" square notch just fine. How to Install Cement Board for Tile Projects, Patio Tiles: How to Build a Patio With Ceramic Tile, Build an Outdoor Table With Tile Top and Steel Base, Garage Floor Resurfacing: Fix a Pitted Garage Floor, How to Remove Paint from Concrete and Other Stains, How to Build and Pour Your Own Modern Concrete Patio, How to Build a Deck Over a Concrete Patio, How to Move Large Rocks: Tips for Hauling Heavy Stones and Concrete Block, How to Cover a Concrete Patio With Pavers, Laminate Repair Tips: Reglue Loose Laminate, Renew Your Concrete Patio: How to Stain Concrete, How to Choose and Use Concrete Fasteners, Masonry Screws, We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer). You want a wet mix under there anyhow, since the Hardi sheets are absorbent themselves, and represent a really big tile to bed in the thinset.The thinset under the Hardi is just to resist compressive loads, so even unmodified is okay under the Hardibacker. Don't cheap-out; buy a quality thinset. for my backer setting bed I buy the cheapest thinset I can find and mix it a bit loose. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. It is for this reason that construction adhesive is even worse than nothing at all. Philips Bugle-Head Coarse Thread Sharp Point Drywall Screws (1 lb./Pack), FibaTape Standard White 1-7/8 in. Cement board forms a durable, stable base for tile, and it has no organic materials (unlike drywall,greenboard, or plywood) so it is not prone tomold, rot, shrinkage, or decomposition due to moisture. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. Note: You can download and print Figure A from Additional Information below. Whatever your subfloor is made of, be sure its squeak free before you install the cement board. See attached pic. This creates the built-up edge for securing bull-nose or other forms of edge tile. What Is Cement Backer Board and How Is It Used? Walls: Installation instructions to treat corners and seams on cement board on walls typically include using a self-adhesive mesh tape and thin-set. This seems quite shady. Thanks in advance for the replies. Do yourself a favor and get the hi-lo screws specifically for CBU. MAPEI recommends the use of MAPEI Porcelain Tile Mortar, MAPEI Large-Format Floor & Wall Tile Mortar or MAPEI Large Tile & Stone Mortar as thin-set under the cement board. The drying time is important for a strong hold. Roofing nails are OK but certainly have a lot less holding power, and deck screws don't have big enough heads. Cement board is a good choice for most installations of tileand stone on shower walls, tub walls and floors. We show you how to install a first-class tile base. We've updated our Privacy Policy, which will go in to effect on September 1, 2022. The Hardi mfgr says the board is to be EMBEDDED in thinset mortar using 1/4 notches. - M.K. If nothing else, I think thinset is about the cheapest adhesive for the board to the plywood. How Can Cooked Meat Still Have Protein Value? That said, a mortar bond would generally be considered a higher-quality installation. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. I know I should have staggered the boards when installing (first mistake), but just now realized I also didn't use the latex polymer additive for the thinset between the cement boards and plywood (second BIG mistake). You might also consider one of those PVA bonding agents, or mix some aliphatic resin glue in your water. His extensive hands-on experience and understanding of the industry make him the go-to source for all things having to do with the home from advice on simple repairs, to complete remodels, to helping homeowners prepare their homes for extreme weather and seasons. Use the flat side of your notched trowel to fill the joints between the backer board sheets. cement board screws spaced every 4 in. With Hardi's blessing, you probably have no legal standing to insist on mortar. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. How to Secure Cement Backer Board to a Plywood Subfloor, Installing Cement Backer Board on a Wood Subfloor Before Tiling, How to Lay Tile Over an Existing Vinyl Floor, Smart Design Can Add Big Function to Small Kitchens, Chelseas Picks: 3 Paint Colors That Work for Any Accent Wall, This Side Up: Installing Insulation Correctly, Changing the Mortar Color on the Fireplace, Ask Danny | Ep. Because plywood expands and contracts beneath the ceramic tile, grout and tile failure (loose tiles and cracked, crumbling grout) is just a matter of time. No matter what youre told at a home center, its not a good idea to install tile directly over plywood, especially in a damp area like a bathroom. I mean, what kinds of thinsets are there? Mix a small batchof thin-setmortar as directed by the manufacturer, mixing the dry powder with water in a bucket. Backed by his 40-year remodeling career, Danny served as the home improvement expert for CBSs The Early Show and The Weather Channel for more than a decade. It is important to install cement board in strict accordance to the cement board manufacturers written instructions. Proper installation would be to follow the manufacturers installation instructions for applying cement board to a subfloor. Set any proud nail- or screwheads. The extra mortar will make it easier to embed the. Plan the placement of the cement backer board sheets. I disagree . If leveling is needed on interior cement board floors, MAPEI recommends the use of a pourable leveler such as MAPEI Self-Leveler Plus over the cement board. Tape the seams Lay cement board fiberglass mesh tape over all the seams (its sticky on one side). It needs to adhere some in order to do that, but adhesion is not the most critical factor, support is. Only mix as much thin-set as you can use in a half hour and be sure to have solid support under each tile. I have read suggestions of both modified and/or unmodified. Should You Install Cement Board on Concrete For Tile Installations? Reputability and integrity are important when choosing a contractor for these reasons. If needed, cut the backer board to fit in small spaces or around obstructions. It may have worked out with no ill effects. Cut the fiberglass seam tape to length with the thin side of your trowel. While using 1/4 thickrather than 1/2 thickcement backer board is acceptable, how you install the backer board and attach it to the plywood subfloor is as important as how you lay the tile on top of it. Trying to relate microphone sensitivity and SPL. It's just not a good idea to use. No extra layers of underlayment are required. Putting down cement board on top of 1/2" plywood that was on top of the 3/4" subfloor. Remove the particleboard and screw the plywood to the floor joists with 1-5/8 in. tongue-and-groove material, screw the underlayment down right through the vinyl with 1-1/4-in. Will dry-setting the cementboard result in creaks or other noise? Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. What is "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern" in _The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel_ season 3 episode 5? why not a spreadable adhesive and notch trowel?seen it done for hardwood on concrete.not trying to argue just trying to learn. Well.what exactly is MODIFIED thinset anyways? I think you've misunderstood the question. Over time the repeated flexing could crack the grout joints and even the tile. The plywood subfloor should be at least 5/8 thick on 16 centers (3/4 preferred) and securely attached to the joists preferably with screws. Standard screws and drywall joint tape will corrode or deteriorate from contact with cement board. The thinset is not necessary under the cement board and is mainly used to fill in voids of the subfloor. Site design / logo 2022 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Installing floor threshold/transition - should I remove existing grout between wood laminate and ceramic tile? The bottoms of the joists rest on the concrete, if there is any deflection Id be surprised. It is not the propermethod for installing a tile system. Get rid of the high ridges and sink the fasteners Check all plywood seams with a straightedge held perpendicular to the seams. 5. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. At Milford Ceramic Tile, we often run specials on backerboard and thinset, sign up for our mailing list to make sure you're taking advantage of these great deals!! Even screws eventually get loose on foot traffic. Fasten the sheet with cement board screws, using a drill-driver, making sure the screws are flush with the surface of the sheet or are slightly recessed. The purpose of the thinset under the backer board is to provide full support under the board. Position each piece of backer board in the thin-set, press in place, and attach using special backer board screws on the spacing recommended by the backer board manufacturer. plywood with 5/8-in. Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, Can you install Hardie Backer over plywood in shower. Correctly installed is the key. The joints between the sheets should be offset by the joints in the plywood (or other) subflooring by at least 8 inches, for maximum floor stiffness. OSB is widely considered to be unsuitable as a tile substrate due to its tendency to swell and delaminate from moisture, but this is a bit different. x 5-1/4 in. The purpose of thinset under cbu is not to bond the boards to the floor, but to fill any gaps/depressions in the subfloor. My contractor replaced old soffits and fascia with fiber cement panels. YOu can buy modified thinset, ready to mix with water. Most contractors dont use thinset just screws. Consult the cement board manufacturer for recommendations on using a moisture barrier between the board and the wall studs. Cover an area just large enough for the first cement board sheet. You'll get a strong bond, but the adhesive will not spread out and form a continuous bed under the backer board. Spread a thin layer of mortar over the fiberglass tape with the flat side of your trowel or paint scraper. Start your subscription today and save up to 70%. I ask that because this floor was built over top an old concrete porch. Our partners can help you compare quotes from top-rated professionals near you. Ready to get the tools and materials you need? Allow the mortar to cure completely, following the manufacturer's recommended drying time. Use a wide putty knife or a flat trowel to spread thin-set mortar over the tape, making sure to knock down any ridges or high spots.
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