Fortunately, its not an issue for our multiple user family (5 11, 6 2, 6 4, and 6 6); we also havent had any performance issues. It shows real-time status of back-orders Ive not seen it show otherwise. Its an incredible feeling. I would agree. In addition to these three bikes, Ive also loaded the Stages Bike in there too, and soon the True Kinetix bike as well. This is should be a product that allows another rider to walk up and fit the bike in less than a minute. Whereas if youre riding on Zwift and just want to capture that ride on your watch or bike computer so that it adds to your training load for the day, you cant do that. Dont know anything about the Atom regarding its resistance system. For the Wahoo bike, its going to be wait and see. But its a tougher pitch in the US at the current price points. My assumption is that as this bike is meant to go up and down you are seeing play in the climb assembly. Good feedback yeah WB would definitely trump the Tacx or Wahoo bikes; Ive just decided to save myself a grand and stick to a H3. If youve ever been on Soarin' at Disney Land/World, think of something like that. P.S GPLama has some hard hitting journalism on the units. Its how it knows how difficult to make the trainer gradient. Another factor for me was not sweating all over one of my road bikes!! NeoBike would be better solution. you cant be suggesting riding an untethered bike on an inclined surface and riding an inclined but fixed bike can be same can you?. On WB and NB the saddles is rock solid during sprint. The thing I like most is the simplicity of having the machine set up and ready to go (assuming my head unit is charged!). 2) switching bikes on the trainer from mine (195cm/64) to my wifes (161cm/53) is annoying since one is 10speed and the other 11speed. Even using it on Peloton gives you limited functionality because they limit the data flow as compared to the Peloton bike. link to forum.trainerroad.com Hopefully theyll add stickers to both sides, as it just makes it easier to do quick fit adjustments or movements between riders. Since tacx bike build base in neo then I assumed they will ride feel similar too right? Thanks guy. I ordered 4 weeks ago. You can put all sorts of stuff there from your phone (and charge it), to gels, to candy to pay-off your kids and buy you just enough time to finish that workout. Whereas if youre riding on Zwift and just want to capture that ride on your watch or bike computer so that it adds to your training load for the day, you cant do that.. In the case of Wattbike, when I talked to them this summer about this (specifically in relation to USA sales and such), they noted that in their experiance, about the only areas that required service for their bikes was seat posts and handlebars, all easy to ship/replace by the user. Is there any News about this topic? Wanna save some cash and support the site? So two years ago when Wattbike entered the market they did just that. I immediately thought of a mow modular approach, noisily because there are so many details that look like will be improved in the second revision. I have a Neo 2 and would not go back to the Kickr b/c of the lack of it. Or? All fixed! As for Peloton, one pays that much in order to be able to pay more for the workouts (what a business model!). Not at all. Ive separated out both shifting and gearing into different bullets. 200w), Includes motor to drive speed (simulate downhill), Can directionally steer trainer (left/right), Can simulate road patterns/shaking (i.e. c. Dont ride outside on a real bike at any point in the year. Theres no tablet holder here either. Worth a watch! That is what makes me mad. DCR Can you verify if the Tacx seat clamp can be flipped over and still allow mounting the saddle? Just like last time I did the power meter pedal shoot-out post, this thing kinda got out-of-control long. Marek. Why the company that has the HW ready (Kettler) just does not start to support these 3rd party apps. Thanks for confirming this Ray. Additionally, you can manually control/override the grade using two buttons on the handlebars to go up or down as you see fit. Now, Wahoo actually does send this information over to Zwift in their data stream. I can change gearing and/or shifters in the middle of a ride. ANT+ FE-C, Bluetooth Smart FTMS, etc). Attach your bars, and go forth riding. In the UK would have gone for a Wattbike given the cost differential but 8-10 weeks lead time?? I could be wrong. I have been very much looking forward to this comparison, thank you very much Ray! Yup, correct. Do you see any one bike more user friendly in terms of maintenance or repairs? any news on the ant+ broadcasting to a garmin watch on the wahoo ? Add a soundproofed chainbox similar to that on an omafiets (unfortunately, belts cannot be fitted into regular frames without sawing). Vtre avis : lequel choisir en oubliant le ct financier? And probably a lot of people who just spend money on parts. On pourrait penser que le vlo KICKR souffre dun problme de stabilite! It does however have a tablet holder thats part of the in-box setup. @DCR Ive covered all the caveats Ive seen in that bike within this post, so there wont be any surprises there (short of it combusting randomly in the next week). Having been riding a Kettler bike for years, which are VERY solid, before jumping the smart trainers in late 2017, I can tell that the answer to above is not easy. On my current setup (Kickr Core, Kickr Climb) with my road bike its fine my head doesnt hit the ceiling when sitting up on the saddle. Thanks. The reason my report evaporated was because I had to ship my bike back last week and was told that they would be shipping a replacement out after they received it back and then yesterday I received notice that they would not be shipping out my replacement until MID TO LATE DECEMBER! On the KICKR+CLIMB combo, its simply lifting your front fork upwards (or downwards). That means that you cant simply pair your Garmin, Wahoo, Suunto, Polar, or whatever device to record the power as a power meter passively, such as to capture training load. Wahoo Bike: Unlike the existing Wahoo trainers, the KICKR Bike is an entirely different design. Hold on a minute.Zwift supports gear display on these bikes? Get all your awesome DC Rainmaker gear here! Its the type of nuanced well thought through detail we frankly dont see a lot of in the sports tech space. No. Its just a question of which features you enjoy most, and whether or not those features are worth the cost. Mechanically its one year ahead. Its not just US. I dont know how its done with the other two, but all thats required with the tacx is a touch of the incline buttons or gear changes and presto, you have resistance change. So, its worth at least noting somewhere in this overly long post that you can throw your own disco party. Because of these reasons we have now even worse compromise having smaller frame mounted on Neo2 that somehow allows at least me and my wife ride indoors without swapping the bikes. Will have to try iOS on iPad (on tiny screen) and see whether that helps. Having a bit of play there as well, will not make the strength calculation easier!? Whereas the KICKR Bike theres no escaping it thats the width all the way across. Thanks for the comprehensive comparison. Else, we wouldnt be able to call a $10K bike high end. Wahoo started shipping about two weeks ago. I simply think TACX is way behind on design compared to Wahoo and will try and bring out this feature in future releases. The little front display of the Kickr Bike is Water Proof because of all the sweat which always drips onto it. Lights, cobbles and wobbles That I agree with. It gives you a tiny bit of movement or play, just like a real-bike. any update on the possibility to connect the Wahoo bike to a garmin watch to record the ride and get training status ? The most common question I receive outside of the whats the best GPS watch for me variant, are photography-esq based. If its not, it will be. Im, sure this will solve my issues. As I write this, Im wondering if someone at Wahoo or Tacx thought about just building some sort of ultra adjustable and sweatproof frame to pair with their existing direct drive trainers. For the front chainring you can choose 1/2/3 chainrings, and the sizes of each. Whether or not thats true in real-life when something goes wrong, Im not sure. Wattbike offers them, I believe Tacx is planning to, I havent asked Wahoo about their plans there. Instead, they simulate them. I live in Germany, temperatures could drop under freezing but it wouldnt be touched by any rain and be stored in a small shed or under a bike-cover. I myself have three different bikes so the argument about replicating the bikefit indoor-outdoor is only 33% true (or we can say that I replicate my fit on NeoBike?). So I returned my smoking bike, got money back as the shop did not have any units to replace the faulty one. My gym membership is up soon. Even though Freiburg Winter is not the same as regular winter (more like a cheap shot autumn ;)) you are pointing out what i was afraid of, I do have an Elite Direto which is a few years of age and could well live on the patio but I have several (tremendous) reasons for upgrading: A rugged indoor smart bike will be rock solid and last for years (i.e the Stages bike) but is good to ride? I suspect once Wahoo gets its head above water, theyll probably do the same. So it will take some time before the trainer will be on stock at the dealers. I cant actually find anything on wahoos website specifically addressing this. One can guess market is there. From center of bb to the floor is just a touch under 32 cm. Can you get Wahoo to confirm this is intended? The only limitation here is that youve got the front display console that might potentially be in the way, depending on your exact aerobar configuration. Then go back to the Wattbike Atom and its like Woah, Im missing the rumble in the jungle!. If only Zwift had a family plan. Sure, no bike can shift that way, but damn its a nice feel. The sensation is different on the KICKR Bike than a KICKR+CLIMB because the pivot point is different. I suspect well find out in a few years. However, the Tacx Bike comes in roughly a standard bike box, whereas the KICKR Bike box is a bit larger. But Wahoo will support that down the line, right? Its the moment youve probably not been waiting for the complete DCR Smart Bike Shootout! Do I think Tacx does that, building an indoor bike that replicates outdoor riding. Dang, it looks like eventually you could so virtual rides and workouts directly from an Edge, as there is no need to pay for an app to do that anymore. Spot-on. However, Wahoos proposed solution would be more functional than others, as Wahoo actually has two auxiliary ports near the front of the bike for expansion, inclusive of shifting from the aerobars. Thats just my personal preference. It has been fantastic to use. Or could we see Elite offer a consumer version of the yacht bike. I have several bikes and would rather not use them on a trainer. Is one more modular than another so that the whole bike would not have to be shipped for repairs/replacement? The cranks could pose a problem I suppose, but theyre already a problem with these smart bikes no? And Wattbike had the first-mover privilege being there two years ago. Can you precise if with a saddle height of 79.5cms (crankset axle to top center of the saddle) we can get a handlebar set-up 8cms below? I am a little worried there might be a Atom v2 around the corner, but for Trainerroad I think it will do what I want. Can you elaborate a bit on this side-to-side movement? In any case, heres what it looks like with my RedShift aerobars attached. If its the Peloton crowd, Im not sure how they compete on the software side with what Peloton is offering. I think thats right. What about a rocking emulator like this link to bikeacces.com. I have decided that I do want a dedicated indoor training bike that is not one of the bikes I like to ride outdoors. One newbie aspect that may not have been discussed, or that I may have missed: How is what one might call the stability of sitting on one of these bikes relatively to, say, Tacx Neo 2? Not sure now. Did you order from CT? Yes folks, you can actually make a single-speed if you want to! I ordered a Tacx many many months ago and eventually gave up and ordered the WB, which arrived just a few weeks later before xmas (the extra lead time is because people have given up waiting for tacx and just gone for a WB). So Im going to put a solid Dont know/Well see on this one. And the acceleration/deceleration pairing on the KICKR Bike just nails it a tiny bit better. Ive got my 5ft 10 year old (hes a big lad) setup on the Kickr bike with no problem, tonnes of saddle height remaining and saddle offset has 2cm spare too, could fit someone slightly smaller me thinks. But wait, are you a female and feel like these things might not apply to you? Instead, the left side shifter operates the front chainring, and the right-side shifter operates the rear cassette. I take things to a whole new level of interactive depth! Quick adjustment levers are only for seat and handlebar height. Cheers What was the timeframe for delivery. Personally Id say to others, dont waste your money on the fancy Tacx or kickr just for the sake of it feeling more like a bike, indoor trainers are just that, indoor trainers and the WB has the same stack, reach, seat position etc as any normal bike and you wont notice any difference in q-factor or any loss of compliance. Initially I was going to have the video review publish at the same time as the written review, but then reality set in. No problem, the product comparison data is constantly updated with new products and new features added to old products! Enjoy, and thanks for stopping by! Still, theyre good for a quick glance. Id love a tacx bike like this for the neo. Ill tell you up-front, there are no bad choices here. As of this writing, Wahoo does not support normal broadcast of ANT+ power or Bluetooth Smart power (nor cadence or speed via those channels either). See, while the Tacx Bike is thick, it only extends below the saddle, so for some people theyll never touch at all because their legs extend forward beyond that point. However, what is far more likely is that well see other entrants. Looking at the ratios inside the Tacx, its clear they use a pretty high gearing ratio to make the flywheel spin faster than the cranks. And thats a fair assessment, just not applicable to me..thankfully! Id be amazed if theyd restricted it. Theyre finding out the same thing Tacx found out, but on a year timeline: Getting manufacturing up to speed on these bikes is incredibly difficult. Its been perfect for us. Fwiw, you can use Wahoos own app to record the workouts and change resistance/etc. I havent taken any apart, so I cant quite say. Can you clarify what the gearing corresponds to in both 22 & 11 speed. Shanes Tacx Bike Box turned into a snowglobe on one edge. Wattbike Atom: Estimated $2,500 Shipping from November 2019 [US already shipping EU/UK] They are not the same. Beyond these regions, most of these bikes are largely unavailable. I agree. Not only is it silent, as opposed to the constant banging of gears on a trainer, but you can shift right in the middle of a flat out sprint, or grinding climb, and not miss a beat. Its really pretty silly at this point and honestly show just how poorly Zwift handles trainer company integrations. Still, its super cool. I have a 3/4 rubber floor and the ceiling height is 8ft. Buttons on both sides, duplicating the functions on both sides. In the case of Tacx, they use small pods in the crankarms that you simply rotate in one of three portions which gets you the three crank lengths: Whereas in the case of the Wahoo Bike theyve got a 5-holed crank-arm that you simply stick your pedal in whichever hole you want: And again, the Wattbike Atom is non-changeable from crank-arm standpoint: As for Q-Factor, the bikes are as follows: Wattbike ATOM: 160mm As for shifting, at its base these bikes allow you to shift through these virtual gears. I get what you are saying. Id also note that in the above times, Im getting the Tacx bike handles to be as clean as possible from an alignment standpoint, but not going to the trouble of also using a hex wrench to get them picture-perfect for a magazine aligned on 90* angles. Does anyone know if its possible to buy a seatpost and/or stem/handlebar to fit a normal road bike on a trainer that has horizontal quick adjustment rails like the ones on these bikes? having tried their smart bikes in Gyms it seems they might have more experience in designing and manufacturing hardware that is easily adjustable and durable. (When I say should, Im talking about physics. Less Switzerland neutrality. Said differently: Its simpler. Is its intended, I believe its really good. Just so much dang money for a TRAINER bike. All these companies are already learning from that. Not so much an all-out sprint, but the nuance of ride feel is best seen (or compared) in a light surge. WattBike Atom: Theres no question that at this point the Atom has the least issues in terms of manufacturing quality type stuff. I was hoping the Halloween Zwift update released today would fix it but no joy. 2014 OG Kickr on its way out. I was expecting to see a noise/silent capabilities comparison between all 3 models. $3K to $10K bikes. Check out the gearing section below for more details on that. It has less moving parts, less functions, and thus less things to break. I think this was the case until very recently, certainly I can hook my Garmin up to it and it reports, power, cadence and speed, all saveable into Garmin Connect and then able to be pushed wherever you like after so not an issue anymore. Wattbike Atom: Wattbike does not have any brakes, but they do have two buttons that could be repurposed down the road as steering buttons on top of the handlebars (one per side) should an app support it. Now that the bike is built, its time to get it fit to you. So it happens more often than you think. Having flex is very important to me too. The engineering may be too hard, but they do make simulators for other things, so maybe not. In short Wahoo wins for pure inertia simulation, but I think Tacx takes a slight edge for the entire outdoor simulation package aspect. Can you confirm the same? For example, the entire seatpost assembly has a few millimeters of wobble play when extended closer to the limits. Not easy to move, shift to one side, etc. For bigger ups and downs I just thought it was kind of annoying after a while. In the case of Wattbike, Im just not seeing any comments around Atoms breaking down the road. I frequently train at 05:15am, before work, and at that time every minute counts. Hehe, I am actually trying to solve the same dilema. I do both casual riding (about 200w), and then I sprint upwards of about 700-800w. I will be getting a Watt Bike. God its so good at shifting. Modular as in virtual shifters for the neo/kickr, to combine with a single speed conversion of your dedicated trainer bike. This essentially replicates the road/terrain feel through the trainer. Hi, In the post here it says it connects to iPhones does this mean that I could use e.g. $5,000CAD is a hard pill to swallow when I could get a beater frame and Kickr Core for about half that. All of the bikes are compatible with installing your own triathlon/TT bars, and all of the bikes use a standard 31.8mm handlebar. Many of the reviews of the Tacx I have read suggest they have a lot of production issues, so I have excluded them and are looking at the Wahoo, Stages and Wattbike. Reach should be fine, but leg length might be right at the limit. Theyll fail, and they all know that from past experience. Completely agree with this. See if that works or not. I thought that the Kickr Bike needed no calibration. I dont actually think that any of these sound like they are really ready for mainstream but we will find out over the next year or so. On my to-do list to ask why on earth those metrics arent included since that was kinda-sorta the entire point of allowing one-way ingest from only training apps with favored nation status. Part of the challenge with these bikes is shipping costs. They only method Wahoo supports right now is ANT+ FE-C for control, and Bluetooth Smart control for control. Whereas just cruising along it might be blue or purple. I once asked their developers when they would open of for Zwift etc. Nice people to speak to on the phone too. Or do we build a indoor smart bike that is as strong as an indoor bike, but looks like a bike? Theres actually a picture somewhere on the net of a guy who busted the belt on his Neo bike and they sent him tools and a replacement belt to fix it himself. And I have the income to justify this purchase (but I would guess in the world of cycling, justifying a 3.5k smart bike vs the several thousand dollar road bikes can be made but lots of people). the brilliance of it would be that we can put the whole thing then on the saris platform and have some natural movement going. Now, the brute-force way of determining whether or not youd rub is simply take out a piece of cardboard and cut it to the measurement above, and then stick it on your bike and see if you hit it a bunch. I did not ride it yet, just finishing setting it up. I do currently own neither anything like a Tacx Neo 2 nor, unsurprisingly, a, say, Neo bike, but have briefly tried the former in a store. Though not tried it, Im sure its equally smooth and compares well to reality. Especially notable when you want to get them up a set of stairs: Once youve got them built, the Wahoo Bike has a much cleaner app-driven setup process for everything else. Heres my aerobars attached to the KICKR Bike: Beyond the aerobar attachment, all other TT/triathlon-type aspects would really fall more under the FIT section outlined above. The critical difference is support for TrainerRoad, Zwift etc. Got it? Which then gets into two basic questions: A) How big of a market for $3,000+ indoor bikes? Thats all part of learning things. She is just under 52 and rides with the saddle at 610mm from the BB centre. Kettler sells top end model Racer RS pretty much for the same money as Tacx NeoBike. Dont know tacx. Wahoo KICKR Bike: Price TBA Shipping in 2020. App like TrainerRoad probably care even less. Maybe I should order mine before Black Friday. There are no practical limitations here, as its just like a normal road-bike handlebar with a normal front stem. Same goes for other units that are either not shipping today, not in-house, or not compliant with industry standards. I was incredibly critical on numerous things. Zero sway. Smart Trainers Buyers Guide: Looking at a smart trainer this winter? Cheers. Sowhat is stopping Zwift from using the ant+ protocol to show Di2 gear display on screen? They started to talk about some part they would need to ship to me and I was quite positive thinking it can happen, but we get it fix quickly. This allows you to stash your phone or tablet up there. But its not entirely black and white. My delivery took 5 weeks in the UK. ive a low ceiling in my pain cave. From a physical change standpoint, on average itll take you about 20-30 seconds to change the configuration for all changeable settings (combined) for either the Wahoo or Wattbike. A bit play is much better and much more like in real life. There will be compromises. Im from out of the country and will be visiting the US, whats the best triathlon shop in city XYZ? Unfortunately. I attempted to cover exactly that split above. I thought with Wahoos new design of the resistance unit that roll down was no longer needed. The unit does this by essentially stuttering the electromagnetic flywheel for a few milliseconds. it is a per device license, so the device has to record the activity to be able to supply connect with the data. How are they put together? No, it wont work. :-/ Most of that is all nitpicking though all three bikes are easy enough to set up, but as noted at the top, the Wattbike comes essentially fully assembled. The Neobike has the slight edge here, as i see it. Note that this section is aside from any feature gaps. I swim, bike and run. You want a climbing setup, you can simulate a nice compact crank and well-geared cassette to go with it. Noted all comments, thanks for the reply Ray. Ill hope though. Wattbike sells seat posts to allow this. I am not sure how big our group is, but personally I do not think it is very big, honestly. Im headed to Paris what do you recommend for training or sightseeing? Id probably wait to see both the Wahoo & Tacx early production teething pains dissipate. While some of the other manufacturing issues Ive seen they say theyve addressed already. I turn the Atom on, turn on the Kindle, turn on the TV and Im off. Can we expect it to be just like IRL? Dont worry, itll make sense in a second. Tacx Neo Bike Road Feel Simulation: This was first introduced back some three years ago on the Tacx NEO series, and since the NEO Bike is part of said series, it gets it too. However, there isnt any way to get it into the Polar ecosystem without a watch (or, without open BLE support). I believe I was first talking to Garmin US. It has to have something that connects between the cranks and the resistance wheel and I cant imagine what else it would be. This is on top of the 2 usb ports stopped working. Does it replicate riding outdoors? While its a valid point for some, there is definitely a market for these smart bikes. Hello My drivetrain is a rusty mess which has to go for a complete cleaning every two weeks, headset / seatpost are seized (not that it really matters), derailleurs are giving up too. But you should understand that not sharing it with my wife, the Neo or Kickr with my racing bike mounted would be in the end better way/option for me. link to youtube.com Picture of the spent belt is attached. In fact, issues are mostly non-existent by now. I am not joking. See if you can measure your room height, as I can make a mic-stand the same height and see if I bonk. These dont feel terribly like real outdoor levers, but then again, much of the Tacx handlebars dont feel like a real bike either. Can you take a screenshot on a pic and circle it? I thought it might also just be a ergonomic issue of keeping the q factor down, but I suspect they need that gear ration more than anything else. Tacx NEO Bike: Tacx has had some teething issues as new units have gone out, though most of these issues seem related to the inventory they had been stock-piling over the summer. Cheers Take for example the boxes. Not to mention the space. Great!! But of course, theres so many other sections of this post as youve discovered by now. It turned out better than I expected. If it is silent too . That noted, with winter coming, I will happily put my bike back on the KICKR and spend my mornings indoors in te comfort of my own home!
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