Seemingly the best fit, marginally too wide. How Much Do You CAIR Whats Inside Your Saddle? Look at the 3 saddles in the photo. [QUOTE=soloudinhere;8267784] This is important as the back of the saddle will always be pushed by the larger shoulder to the side of the smaller shoulder and no matter how you ride, there is nothing you can do about it - unless you have the saddle re-fitted to that horse. The shoulder blade would hit the front of the tree and the points and the horse would soon start evasions such as being reluctant to do sharp turns, resistance going into trot and canter, Pig-rooting etc. Im leery of purchasing online after buying the HDR. They are all sold as 'Wide' as the tree angles are the same but the bottom one has almost double the tree width between the top of the panels. Just another vote for the Thorowgood! ETA: Tricky horse is a TB with a shark fin wither, structurally massive shoulder, and short back. Oh man do I know your pain, though I had issues with having a big wide horse with highish, long withers. And how about round rib cages that spring out nearer the spine, or narro. Horses are usually NOT symmetrical. Pictures would certainly help the general COTH rabble understand your situation. In sythetic saddles, 6 years is pretty old, and the trees and panels have changed a couple times in the thorowgood lineup since then, so what you were getting might be very different from what someone with a 2015 model might have. This guide shows the 12 essential points to check for a correctly fitting saddle for both horse and rider. Wintec, thorowgood, bates. In our efforts to minimize your shipping cost we will contact you with your shipping rate after you purchase the saddle or send a trial inquiry. You will then find it easy a miracle and your lower leg will be still as well. Many newer dressage saddles now feature extended stirrup bars as standard and a few brands have adjustable stirrup bars. Is leather worth the money? New saddle trials last for 5 days. http://www.caircushionsystem.com/faqs/index.htm, http://www.easychangefitsolution.com/easy-change_fit_solution/index.html, Debunked: The Lie Thats Told About Adjustable Gullet Saddles, The Horses Back Patreon Hits 100 Wonderful Posts And Here Are Their Titles, Beyond Sidebone: Pastern Pain and the Lateral Cartilage, Heres a Round Up of My Premature and Dysmature Foal Research, Yes, We Can Image for Transitional Vertebrae in Horses. I myself need a saddle with a wider twist, a shallow rise towards the pommel and a wider seat or I can't ride in it for very long! By bringing a rider into better balance, the horse is more comfortable and able to move more freely as well. There should be an equal even pressure all the way down - not tighter at the top than the bottom or vice versa. The girth points, when the saddle is positioned correctly on the horse should hang perpendicular to the ground when they are positioned to be in the girth groove of the horse. On a $500 budget, finding a used Thorowgood High Withereven the cheapest model, the T4is going to be a real chore. Looking across the spine, we can spot angular A-frame backs and smooth, flat and pudgy backs. Saddle trees vary from flat, which suits a lot of cob types to banana shaped trees for older and sway backed horses, in the middle is a standard tree, with a gentle curve. Youve gotta get em shipped from the UK even with international shipping you get them worlds cheaper than buying local. Shes been sitting having babies for the past few years of her life, and therefore is largely lacking a top line, and the ability for me to fit a saddle to her! document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Bates Caprilli CC Jumping Saddle with Heritage Leather, DT Saddlery 17 Butterfly Claudia Dressage Saddle 1006, Stubben 17.5 31cm Genesis Deluxe VSD 0936, JRD 17.5 M Short Flap Dressage Saddle 0897, Stubben 17 M/MW Scandica Dressage Saddle 1066, Dutchess Bridle & Saddle, LLC412B US Highway 206 SouthMontague, NJ 07827, Monday - Friday: 10am - 5pmSaturday: 10am - 4pmSunday: by appointment, About UsServicesOur BrandsHow do you Dutchess?Society of Master Saddlers UK, ShippingSaddle Trial PolicyReturns & ExchangesFAQsCustomer ServicePrivacy Policy. The rear of the panels should never sit behind the last rib of the horse when the saddle is in the correct position. Your bits are then crunched against the narrow or high twist and it is hell after 20 minutes or so. Thick panels and high tree head gave her plenty of clearance. It is possible to have a horse that needs a wide tree width, but a narrow tree angle at the same time. The seat must be the correct size for the rider. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. Ordered a seat size too large the first time around so exchanging for a smaller size now. Ive never found a saddle that fits her better than this T6. You can find the odd used bates floating around for 500 every now and then. In a perfect world, wed all like to have sufficient gussets support built right into our saddle. No problem Dutchess offers Virtual Saddle Fitting! Please try again. All rights reserved. However some disciplines and saddle styles do require the balance to be a little forward or back for example an Australian stock saddle used on a horse that is working cattle with a low head carriage and therefore riding on the forehand will benefit from a further back balance point while a jump saddle has a balance point further forward to enable the rider to stay balanced in a forward jump position. High withers can extend way back into the area of the saddle. NB: Whilst the innovative EASY-CHANGE Fit Solution offers unsurpassed flexibility in achieving an optimal fit, no one saddle can claim to fit every horse. (Includes Pictures of the Secret Flock Sock), Debunked: The Lie Thats Told About Adjustable Saddles. For this pony the girth straps would need to be attached to the saddle much further forwards to stop this happening. The Innova Mono+ is a great choice for the rider looking for the next level in performance, comfort, and adjustability. Thank you !! Women often have problems with saddles rubbing and putting pressure on the 'bits' that are unmentionable. I wanted to show her wither tracings/some side shots of her to get some suggestions, but I cant seem to figure out how to attach photos? Roly-Poly ponies almost always have a forward girth groove but its not only ponies, many quarter horses, arabs and warmbloods have a forward girth groove too. Nothing wrong with synthetic dressage saddles, IMO. Ensure your horse is standing square and is on level ground. Consignment Saddlesnot included. Paving the Way for Future Research a New ECVM Horse Register, 10 Rehab Tips for Horses with High-Low or Upright Hooves, A Pelvic Blow Out? How adaptable are the saddles for achieving an optimal fit?. I am in the process of ordering a T4 COMPACT GP as he also has a short back to go with his moderate wither. In order to have shoulder/hip/heel alignment with these saddles the rider would have to bring the lower leg back but then the stirrup no longer hangs vertically, but slopes backwards as well. Then, we'll ship the saddle to you with the correct gullet plate and risers already installed, so you're ready to ride right out of the box! Horses are usually NOT symmetrical. The narrow, high upward curve of the twist would mush my bits. Air is captured at atmospheric pressure in an open-celled foam and sealed in the Air Panel. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. We'll use our professional judgment and over 20 years' experience to provide the best fit, but we can't guarantee a perfect fit. This is important as the back of the saddle will always be pushed by the larger shoulder to the side of the smaller shoulder and no matter how you ride, there is nothing you can do about it - unless you have the saddle re-fitted to that horse. Locate your horses shoulder and check to see that the nail of the saddle is approximately three fingers distance from the edge of your horses shoulder. I ended up getting a 2009 T6 High Wither for $300 because of some unattractive wear on the synthetic part of the flaps. My seatbones miss the seat altogether and are sitting on the ridge or with some saddles past the seat itself!! Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. If the balance point of the saddle is too far forward the rider will feel like they are being tipped forward, if the balance point is too far back the rider will find they naturally sit in a chair position. And yes, even if you have an adjustable gullet, that can be a huge asset. I cant see the tracings at work, but just in general, I dont see a lot of horses who would actually fit into a narrow tree. Similar cut-back pommel to Kieffer and Passier with the added bonus of a changeable gullet. This is determined by the shape of the tree from front to back. To test, saddle up with the girth done up and run your hand from front to back under each side of the panels. Fabulous service thank you great communication, . Learn more about earning points with eBay Mastercard, - eBay Return policy - opens in a new tab or window, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new tab or window. Ive had trouble getting adequate wither clearance on her. My TBx is short-backed and moderately withered and he goes in the regular wither with tons of room to spare. When your new saddle is delivered, you'll need to choose the correct gullet plate for your horse, and purchase either aComplete Gullet Kitor one or moreindividual gullet plates. Take up to two saddles on trial at one time! Help is appreciated. Sometimes you get lucky and people dont know what they have, or theres something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. Men have a distance between their seatbones of about 4" but women can vary from 4" to 8" and the wider apart your seatbones, the worse the problem becomes if the Twist is too narrow or high. Sometimes you get lucky and people dont know what they have, or theres something cosmetically wrong with the saddle that does not impact its function. Since the padding will be in your correction pad, youll have much more flexibility to add/subtract padding over time. To find this point, find where his hairlines come together in the area of his flank and draw a line straight up to his spine. The Tree width is the wideness of the tree at the front of the saddle, between the panels. If your horse is developing these hollows, get a different saddle QUICKLY. Call 973-552-9548 or send us an email. Meanwhile, exactly which Bates were you sitting in? The rider must also feel that they are sitting 'IN' the saddle, not perched 'ON' it and this aspect is very rider-shape dependent and only trying the saddle can decide if the saddle seat fits the rider. Most horses have one shoulder that is bigger than the other, just as we are right or left handed. Be sure to select the Silver Level or above when purchasing your new saddle. (This rule does not apply to hoop tree saddles, they should sit very close to the horse.). The panel should be in full contact with the horse's back evenly all the way from front to back. Good to know could you possibly take a look at her confo shot and tell me how she compares to your TB? The Twist of the saddle is the part of the seat that is the narrowest. A Bates Innova? Copyright 1995-2022 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. This then lowers the sensitive bits down onto the saddle as the saddle seat falls away the lower down you go. It is very narrow where my seatbones sit my seatbones would be wider than the seat in this area. Dover carries them. If in doubt, get on Google Images and find us a similar picture. The numbers you entered don't match the image. Stubben junp saddle? Got it for $100 and loved the heck out of that thing. Run your hand between the horse and the panel of the saddle to check for even bearing. Need help fitting this saddle? But on your budget, consider the merits of investing in a shimmable correction pad. This is NOT normal and would never be seen on an unbroken horse. Check that the deepest part of the saddle is central and level to ensure perfect saddle balance. Flexi Contourblocs and Adjustable Ergonomic Stirrup Bars are both anatomically shaped and adjustable, so you can customize to fit your ideal riding position. *Saddle fitting is not an exact science. The size of the seat must to be selected based on the weight and leg length of the rider and giving consideration to the saddle style, brand and model as well. The saddle will ALWAYS move to the position where the girth hangs vertically and in this case with this saddle, where the girthing points are too far back the saddle ends up on his shoulders!! On a wide shouldered horse the wide saddle in the centre would prevent all rotation. Call the Middleburg Tack Exchange. I have (stretched) a $500 budget. (To be fair, I could make similar comments about leather saddles.). Saddle fitter said theres not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly. A link to set a new password will be sent to your email address. The girth points, when the saddle is positioned correctly on the horse should hang perpendicular to the ground when they are positioned to be in the girth groove of the horse. All Bates Saddles come standard with a Medium gullet plate installed. I purchased a medium Kincade dressage saddle- way too wide. It is recommended that you seek professional advice on selecting the best saddle and fit to meet the unique needs of each horse and rider combination. Be warned though: its really too short for an 18" saddle, if you go in that. Definitely invest in the ECP pad linked above as well! An old-style Bates Caprilli Dressage? Various collegiate close contact saddles. Saddle fitter said theres not a thing wrong with it otherwise, and it fits my tricky horse perfectly. https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/equine-comfort-products-cotton-correction-half-pad-11075[/QUOTE], http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Jpondell/Mobile%20Uploads/story. Its just about driving me insane on my small budget. When you add shims to the front of the padjudiciously, and with careyou can simulate the shape of a built-in, deep-front panel like the one on the Thorowgood High Wither models. Virtual Saddle Fitting is non refundable. Im just about to order a T4 now from Dover but would love to hear which websites youve discovered! Too wide. Sometimes, a saddle that is straight when standing, is not straight after it has been ridden in for a few minutes. Foam panel insert, now renamed the EASY-Change Riser System. Join today and have access to 25 archive posts straight away. Lovely saddle.. This can be due to the rider, but is often due to the uneven shoulders. Kieffer might be difficult to find in narrow (their standard is a medium that can be adjusted up or down a bit by a fitter), and IIRC Passiers tend to run narrow. The Size of a Walnut Does Equine Brain Size Matter? I honestly doubt that you will need a hi-wither model though. View cart for details. Your saddle should bear evenly on your horses back, providing a close fit. They must not be at an angle either forwards or backwards when the girth is done up. 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